hello there.. i have this question that all christians argue about in my country… did christ die for all of our sins or just adams sin? and do i have to obey gods laws directly. cause in the bible it is written that i shouldnt since i believe in jesus… i know that they may answer each other but i am putting this so i can show the answer. cause i believe that christ died for all of my sins and i just have to believe in him and love everyone else to be saved…
Ambrose Maonaigh: Believing in our Saviour and loving everyone will certainly save you, but it is also very necessary to avoid sin and to repent when you do sin.
Mattews Andraws: why so if in the bible written otherwise ?
Ambrose Maonaigh: Can you please quote the Bible verses?
Mattews Andraws: ok wait.
Ambrose Maonaigh: For example Christ says that to be saved you must1. believe in Him2. repent of your sins3. be baptized4. receive the Spirit, and5. eat His body and drink His blood.
Mattews Andraws: Romans 3:20 Galatians 5:2-3Galatians 5:4-6Galatians 2:21 Galatians 3:11Romans 9:30-33Romans 10:1-4Romans 3:21-22Romans 8:3-4 Philippians 3:1-6Philippians 3:7-9 Galatians 2:14-16Galatians 2:17-19 Galatians 2:19-21 John 3:18John 5:24there is a lot more. i just found those….most christians i know and muslims dont believe that such gift does exist… cause it is so easy and unfair in their human logic. well i guess thats why its called a gift.
Ambrose Maonaigh: Numbers are no good to me. Give me the words.
Mattews Andraws: thats a lot
Mattews Andraws: ok wait
Mattews Andraws: ill tell when i put my last one
Mattews Andraws: or u know what. check out this blog. it contains it all. also there is other scriptures that are not in the blog and say the same thing
Mattews Andraws: Clemzyclementministry.blogspot.com
GRACESTAND LEADERSHIP ACADEMY
Mattews Andraws: ill not be able to answer for a while. maybe in 3 hours ill be.
Jerry Takis: Matusos, there is a bigger picture to see here. Youre right, it is a big discussion because it gets to what the Bible and Orthodox Tradition says about salvation.
Nathaniel Marshall: Just flipping through to those references, youve built a great defense for not converting to Judaism. But this reveals a misunderstanding in your thinking. Orthodoxy does not teach law-keeping, because:Works of the law is not the same as good works.
Vlad Padina: If you love Me, keep My commandments. – John 14:15, John 14:23, John 15:10
Vlad Padina: You cant say you love your neighbour if you steal from them, rape them, kill them, covet what they have etc.You can not say you love the Lord if you do not do those, and if you disrespect Him, His words, His day, His servants.
Vlad Padina: So you can SAY you love Christ all you want, if you do not keep His commandments you show you do not love Him.Think of this: if one murders, cheats on their spouse, steals from their neighbour, judges and hates everyone – do they actually love Christ?
Mattews Andraws: Your point is write. But mainly. The Bible tells us not to be threatened by the laws. And that whatever we do we are saved. Since we believe in jesus. And I guess since im a christian the only commandments jesus ask us to follow is to believe and love. Those two kind of include the whole but absolutely with no percentage of failing and a guaranteed salvation.
Victoria Marckx: No, actually. Read Matthew 25…we are not just to believe and to love…we are to actively follow Christs commandments by feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, giving drink to the thirsty (this does not mean buying a round for your friends in a bar), visiting those sick and in prison…the list goes on. BUT if we do all those things WITHOUT love, we are also wrong.
Vlad Padina: This^Christ Himself gave us new and perfect commandments, and He Himself said that those that do not follow those commandments shall perish….See more
Mattews Andraws: Normally if a person loves people hell do all these things. I guess he meant love not just by pity but also by working to help people. This is included by love. And id be glad if u can put the scripture where jesus said that if we dont obey the law we will perish (while believing and loving)
Mattews Andraws: I dont include myself to any church since all churches are human made and easily can be misleading. I dont put virgin mary on that high rank orthodox or Catholic do. Also I dont bow to any statue l. And I dont believe in Saints. This is so idolatry and paganism in my opinion.
Mario Georgiou: I presume you came to these conclusions by reading the Bible that the Orthodox compiled. Thank you for enlightenment, we shall inform the Holy Synod and get them to amend two thousand years of tradition and fighting heresies, maybe then our church will be fit for you to join.
Mattews Andraws: 2000 years… wow thats a lot of time. i guess something that old can be infiltrated with wrong teaches with time. i cant see anything worse can happen after the pope joining the nwo. this is an example for 2000 years old church…without mentioning th…See more
Mattews Andraws: what source we have even about christ himself but the bible?? we dont have videos nor pictures of christ being crucified. the only source we have is the bible,and when the church has that much contradiction with the bible, should i leave the bible and go with the church??!!
Mario Georgiou: The Orthodox Church wrote the Bible. You are confusing us with catholics, we dont have a pope
Mattews Andraws: i know. but what difference do the orthodox have with the vatican?? they both worship virigin mary and saints, they both beileve in material stuff like oil and candles. they both have ceremonies while praying… its like god is limited. he is not every…See more
Mattews Andraws: orthodox means old school. but now the orthodox church only caries the name, they added a lot since, apostles didnt make statues of jesus, or healed by oil.
Mattews Andraws: cant god heal us when we ask? why do we need oil? does god exist only in this oil?
Mario Georgiou: We dont have statues. Jesus tells us to anoint our head with oil in the bible
Mattews Andraws: ok what about icons??
Mattews Andraws: please send me the scripture about the oil
Mario Georgiou: We venerate icons, not worship
Mattews Andraws: what difference?? what about virigin mary and the saints??
Mario Georgiou: But when you fast, put oil on your head and wash your face,
Mattews Andraws: so did all people worshiping zeus and apollo.they praid to his protoytpe made by the statue or image not for the same material. and only they were called idolatries.
Mario Georgiou: Have you been to an Orthodox church and followed the liturgy?
Mattews Andraws: thx for that info, i didnt know…but cant people be connected to god without oil?? people now forget their faith and only travel the world to buy some oil to get healed. like ggod isnt in their home country
Mattews Andraws: my mum is russian (orthodox) but no. i havent
Mattews Andraws: i wont be able to answer for a while now. but i will as soon as i can
Mario Georgiou: Water is everywhere in the atmosphere, but if I want a drink, I go to a well. This does not mean there is more God in the well. The rituals, prayers and veneration cleanse your heart and mind and soul so you are more receptive to The Holy Spirit
Mattews Andraws: cleaning my soul cant be made by oil or rituals. i can think of porn while all these things happen around. sorry for the metaphor
Virginia Parrish: Matuos Andraws actually there are historians writings from this time. Look into Josephus. There is another one, but his name escapes me at the moment.
Mattews Andraws: thx)))
Belene Solomon: the title christ litteraly means the anointed one. So as orthodox tradition, we have many tools that we use in our worship process, including our icons, oils, holy water. May God help you my friend. The spiritual world is way more complexe than we know it. Please dont assume you have all the answers even if you feel emotional about it.
Mattews Andraws: ok, i can understand, but nowadays people forget about christ and get bussy with those material matters, no churches spend millions on building beautiful churches(which i admire) but leave poor people starve to death, and also the orthodox and the cath…See more
John Aziz: Matuos- Orthodox Christians do not worship saints not Mary we venerate them and praise God in all His saints. The way you speak shows a lack of understanding of what Christ accomplished for our salvation. First saints are not dead but alive in God, as…See more
Mattews Andraws: thx a lot, you change some of my ideas, but can u please tell me where i can find those scriptures about that all generations will call her blessed? though it is a thing other churches do but not in the same manners.
John Aziz: Sure, Luke 1:48 talks about all generations shall call her blessed. Luke 1:43 – the Holy Spirit through Elizabeth calls her mother of my Lord, hence why we call her Mother of God.
Mattews Andraws: ok thx a lot.)) i appreciate ur help)
Mattews Andraws: but the second scr is just a saying…lord is called to any master. and we all know that she is jesus mothers, but this is a genetic matter not spiritual so we cant say that she is the mother of god. the father is the spiritual father of jesus, but she only gave her genetics
John Aziz: One of the most beautiful things about the Orthodox faith is that you can read about the early Church fathers and the disciples of the Apostles and match their faith to what Christ taught and also to what the church teaches now. You will not find that …See more
John Aziz: Also if what you said is true why would Elizabeth call a person who is not born her master to what does the child who is not born owe or posses over her? Clearly the Holy Spirit is speaking about His God head as Lord.
Mattews Andraws: aha, i understand you here… but to risky… why dont i worship jesus alone? there is nothing wrong with that right?
John Aziz: What does that have to do with worship? Christ is worshiped with the Father and the Holy Spirit as One God. St Mary is honored as Mother of God because she Bore God in the Flesh, she touched the untouchable, held the un held, she is called the second h…See more
Mattews Andraws: i see. yslamo 3atafserk. r7 a7awel afhm wejhet na6ark…
Mattews Andraws: pls expalin: Do not make idols or set up an image or a sacred stone for yourselves, and do not place a carved stone in your land to bow down before it. I am the LORD your God.Leviticus 26:1
John Aziz: 7abibi, an idol is something thats created and worshiped that represents a false god or something that doesnt exist. Depicting something that is real is not an idol otherwise every picture you have of your family on your phone is an idol. Also, if st…See more
Mattews Andraws: ok thx for explaining… that was very helpful…
Nathaniel Marshall: Not every church is man made. Only one was established by our Lord. Are you sure that you want to risk rejecting that?If you grasp tightly to [your] opinion and are not willing to hear the Voice of the Church, to be persuaded by the lives of the Saints and be led by the Spirit of God into the fullness of Life…then you, of your own volition, will have settled for something less than.
Mattews Andraws: Nowadays churches cherish nwo and cancel the only way to be saved with christ by making a united religion where there is no christ
Dionys Murphy: Scientificamerican.com
The Conspiracy Theory Detector
Nathaniel Marshall: Sorry, Dionys, Im not quite sure what to make of your link. Was that directed at me, or…?
Dionys Murphy: No. For Matuos Andraws and his NWO silliness.
Mattews Andraws: Dionys Murphy silliness!? when have you ever heared of a religious leader like the pope says that athiest can go to heaven and same sex isnt a sin, he met with shaikh elzhar and they are trying to delete all religions and create a world wide united religion where christ doesnt have a big role, if he has a one at all…
Vlad Padina: So, the Church the Apostles founded is human made?
Mattews Andraws: What apostles found certainly doesnt include worshiping mary or mother tirisa.
Dionys Murphy: or Christian rock music. Or the Bible.
Dionys Murphy: Kind of a stupid argument when you really follow that logic.
Mattews Andraws: i cant follow. w
Mattews Andraws: explain please
Vlad Padina: The Bible you quote was composed out of the various scrolls by the fathers of the Orthodox Church.
Dionys Murphy: Yet didnt exist with the Apostles.
Mattews Andraws: orthodox means old school. they are just carrying all old traditions to the present of christianity, but now they are holding the name, cause apostles didnt worship apostles, or mary, the apostles only worshiped jesus christ. they added a lot of things…See more
John Aziz: Orthodox does not mean old school it means Correct Worship.
Mattews Andraws: ok this is not my point anyway
Virginia Parrish: Having grown up in the Protestant world, with Catholic relatives and then personally converting to Orthodoxy, what Im seeing in your comments is a confusion of the doctrines of these three. Since Im not sure of your research, I dont want to presume what you do or do not know, so if I write anything here that you are already aware of, please forgive me. So the Orthodox Church was founded with the disciples and apostles after Christs death. We do not worship Mary or saints. We regard them with respect. We may (though some of us dont) kiss an icon in the same way you would kiss the photo of a loved one that you miss. We consider the saints our spiritual family who have gone on before us. We respect Mary because she was most blessed among women if God chose her to carry the Christ child. But our salvation comes only through Christ himself. As for Catholics, I too was taught that they worship Mary, but I was mislead. They have a somewhat different belief in her righteousness than Orthodox, but they simply show her the respect they believe she is due. Christ came to reconcile us to the Father. When Adam brought sin into the world he created a schism between man and God. So the people then lived under the laws trying to do good enough to reconcile themselves to God. You are right that Christ has covered this and we arent required to live all these old laws. But Jesus told us to Love God and Love our neighbor. As has already been pointed out in this thread, you cant be committing sins agains people and saying that you love them. And the idea that you commit sins that dont harm anyone, so they dont count doesnt really work, because there are scriptures in Romans 14, and I Corinthians 8 that teach us to be careful because we dont know who is watching and we may be a stumbling block to them. In other words our actions may turn them away from God. So in your original question, what I see is you are espousing the Protestant view of once saved, always saved. And while there are scriptures that can be used to prove this Romans 8:38-39 comes to mind, the truth is that if we are children of God we will keep his commandments to feed his sheep. We will want to show our love by living a righteous life, and we will want others to know our God so we will want to live righteously so that we can be the salt and light (Matthew 5:13-16) to the world. As an American my perspective on the once saved always saved may be different than yours. So many Christians here believe that because their sin is covered by the blood of Christ they can do what they want (look at our political situation), but by doing this they have caused thousands, if not millions, of people to turn away from God. In my country the Protestant type of Christian is really the only one people know because they are constantly yelling about something in the media. These are what I call Paulinians. Theyd rather stone people for their beliefs, than follow Christs example of eating with the sinners and publicans and showing them love. So I have a very strong disagreement with this ideology of once saved always saved because it is used by fallible people to excuse their bad behaviors. James 2 tells us that faith without works is dead. We have to show our love, not just say it. If I was your wife and I said I loved you, but every day I hit you with a stick and then went around spending time with other men, would you believe my words or my actions? Matthew 7 says people will recognize is by our fruits (our good works). John 13:35 says we are recognizable by our love. So all of this to say, what if youre right? If we are saved once then we never have to worry about it again? But because of that you do whatever you want, and cause your children or your mother to fall away and turn from God so they are eternally separated? Will it have been worth it to you to do whatever you please for your short time on earth, versus their eternity? I cant claim to know everything, as I am not God. And the church is run by fallible human beings and so we probably mess things up here and there along the way. As you said its been 2000 years so its possible. But one thing that drew me to Orthodoxy is that we have the writings of the church fathers from the first few centuries of Christianity, so its easier to continue with the traditions and beliefs of the disciples and apostles. Most Protestants think church history started with Luther in the 1500s, so all of that knowledge and tradition is lost to them. And while their hearts are mostly in the right place, as they are trying to seek God, they are starting with a broken and corrupted perspective. I hope this helps to clarify some points for you. Be blessed.
Mattews Andraws: thx very much, it was very helpful, we do share a lot of thoughts, but you see my main reason agaist orthodox and catholics is that they do respect mary like worshiping, now we pray to jesus and mary at the same time, we havr prayers for mary, this is …See more
Belene Solomon: 2000 Years of preserving the original teachings and still going. Saints are Saints because they have led exemplary lives and have been granted graces from God that are not commonly seen amongst the rest of us. Their Stories have been documented And passed down. We also recognize the Virgin Marys valuable role and venerate her for it, just as The Archangel Gabriel told Her So when he first broght the good news to her. We have stories documented that were passed down from the same time she was still living on earth.
Mattews Andraws: ok but they didnt tell us to worship them… my all respect and love to the saints and virign mary(but only respect and love)
Va Nessa: Read James, Matuos
FrJames Igetei: Pls brother, the word of God is one piece. Christ commanded that no one should teach the weak to keep away from one jot of the commandment(matt:5:18) and christ death is both personal and universal. Each person is Adam, and Adam is each person whom Christ came for
Mattews Andraws: then what makes us different from the jews?
FrJames Igetei: Didnt Jesus himself keep the Jewish feast? pls read your scriptures. Jesus always went to the synagogue especially during big feasts. an example is his entrance into Jerusalem for the passover: where they eventually killed Him. another is at the feast…See more
Mattews Andraws: so god was born only to be a good example??
Mattews Andraws: what about all the scriptures i put above about forgeting the law of the jews?
FrJames Igetei: pls to be clearer on this take the reading till verse 19 (matt.5:18-19) it will reassure you. God bless you.
Timothy Eric Clontz: Matuos the theoretical framework is that Christ saves you from your sins. Thats not just the consequences to sin but the bondage of it as well. If you are still in bondage to sin then you havent been saved from it.
Mattews Andraws: so wt u r trying to say that i am saved only when i forget my life and continue without sins?
Timothy Eric Clontz: When you are saved, you are changed. You arent perfect, but you are free from bondage to sin. A wild animal needs a cage. A tame animal needs no cage.Youve been thinking of the law like a cage, but that is only half of it.
Mattews Andraws: this is a thing that can be done by principles not just by jesus,and by ur saying, i havent met in my life a peson that matches this manners, in tis case heaven will host like 100 people?? this is so far from all the christians i know… at least in my country
Timothy Eric Clontz: Matuos — think of bondage like an addiction. Yes, there are plenty of non-alcoholics that drink, but they arent enslaved to it.The tamed person can still sin, and often does — but it is no longer the aim or core principle of his life….See more
Mattews Andraws: i see ur point, thx for explaining
John-abouna DAlton: Matuos Andraws if you ask genuine questions here you are welcome. But if you keep arguing for Protestant ideas rather than learn from us, you are not welcome. Fr John, an admin.
Mattews Andraws: i am arguing for things i came to this website for, and i am not a protstant, i am a catholic born person, but i question things and ask about them, thats why some of these sites are made for,right??
Stephen Montgomery: but you need to read what people write
Mattews Andraws: of course i read… i asked to know the answer