New convert here. Just wanted to ask a few key question I have been pondering. What are the views of the church on politics? I have been a libertarian up until recently but many Orthodox friends have near convinced me on Monarchism and Absolutism. I also want to know more about the Churches view(s) on capitalism and free markets. I keep hearing about Distributism. Also how do we feel about the right to bear arms and the 2a? I do enjoy going to the range.
Antonia Pep: There are a wide range of political views in orthodoxy. One thing is clear. You are to live at peace with your fellow man as far as it is up to you. And you are to love your neighbor as yourself. How that gets worked out in practical terms by particapation in governing one another is debatable and imperfect no matter which way you lean.
Antonia Pep: Thats 2 things i guess. Lol
Bratislav Peplinski: Trying to make the group implode, are you?
Adam Kelly: not intentionally lol Just a curiosity of mine.
Razvan Baba: topic closure in 3, 2, 1…
Christian Proano: We should learn how to live Eucharistically, and then, allow this lifestyle take over any political view as much as possible, in my opinion this is the only way we keep our Christianity in the forefront instead of having our political view dictaminate how to interpret our Church life.
Bratislav Peplinski: I will say that the teachings of the church can be implemented in various ways under various political structures, but the best of us are definitely anti-capitalist and left-leaning. M.facebook.com
Orthodox Christian Leftists
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Adam Kelly: oh my, safe to say this will be hard for me to read but I will do my best to keep an open mind.
Bratislav Peplinski: If open to distributism, a lot of socialist ideas shouldnâ€™t be too hard to swallow.
Jordan Elrod: Lost me at the Castro mosaic on the cover photo of group
Bratislav Peplinski: Sure. Just commemorating this important event. M.youtube.com
A BEACON IN HAVANA
Jordan Elrod: I know the event. The reopening of a church, that his regime closed btw, as a purely symbolic measure before the 2004 Olympics in Athens. Im the son of a Cuban refugee, I know all I need to know.
Nick Mihaly: Itâ€™s glorifying a murderous dictator. I donâ€™t care what Patriarch is in the mosaic. The group is â€œOrthodox Leftistsâ€ and they pick a tyrant to represent it. There wasnâ€™t someone better?
Bratislav Peplinski: Name a few options. Iâ€™ll see what I can do.
Nick Mihaly: Idk. How about someone whoâ€™s leftist who is actually Orthodox?
Nick Mihaly: I mean, the current one is like putting a picture of Stalin up there.
Nickalas Tsougarakis: Some seem to be big on former kgb agents
Anastasios Tsatsakis: â€œSocialism only works in two places: Heaven where they dont need it and hell where they already have it.â€â€” Ronald Reagan
Nickalas Tsougarakis: Careful, it gets slippery around here with socialist tears.
Felicity Backman: Adam Kelly No worries. Thats a left-slanted outlook, which he has the right to hold, as do Conservatives and capitalists. ðŸ˜
Anastasios Tsatsakis: But Christians arenâ€™t supposed to get angry or insult… so we should be fine… right?
Serge George Mihaly Jr: Disagree. Russia in 1917? Today? North korea? China? Id say orthodoxy is more like give into Caesar caesars and God Gods. Our faith and salvation through Christ is the focus, not politics or economic theory.
Anastasios Tsatsakis: We are commanded to be educated and to support laws that are compatible with Godâ€™s laws. Politics is life so there is no avoiding it. Politics means: â€œthe total complex of relations between people living in societyâ€ but over the years, people consider …See more
Christian Proano: As quoted above, Orthodoxy has pre-existed a bunch of modern forms of politics, and will survive them, the political view of today is just the fashion of the times, tomorrow there will be another one, as Orthodox we certainly can participate in politics as much as we realized that Church is eternal while politics is not, so as not to try to change the Church just because such or such political view is currently applicable and seen to work.
Christian Proano: Just in case generally speaking a bunch of Orthodox here in USA are quite ok with a moderate capitalism.As much as Im sure in Europe a bunch of Orthodox are ok with more leftist form of government.Lets ask the Christians in Etiopia and see what form of government they like ;)So dont take it too personal if you find a Orthodox with a view that differs ones own.
Adam Kelly: oh no, not surprised in the least
Jordan Elrod: Agreed! I personally lean more libertarian as Adam Kelly stated because I believe in individual liberties and the rights of all to practice their religion freely. You will definitely find all kinds with all kinds of reasonings.
Jordan Elrod: Also, and more importantly, welcome to the faith, Adam Kelly!
Adam Kelly: Jordan Elrod Thanks. I still have much more to learn and study but I am within good faith.
Jordan Elrod: As do we all!
Nick Mihaly: The Orthodox stance on politics is to render to Caesar the things that are Caesarâ€™s. That being said, the Chrurchâ€™s doctrine should guide oneâ€™s political views.
Jerry Takis: Adam, welcome to the group! Just so you know, I am not a priest or any other clergy. I am a Sunday School director at my local Parish and and I was born into the Greek Orthodox faith.I think most of the comments above accurately represent Orthodoxy. When Christ was pressed for his Allegiance to Caesar, he made it a non-issue. Another words, Render unto Caesar what is Caesar and unto God what is Gods.Political parties are secular organizations and therefore inadequately cover what is important to Christ. I tend to be a Centrist. It is my feeling that a society of good people can function under a more capitalistic or a more government controlled Society. Conversely, money and power in the hands of evil rulers is the same regardless of whether they are private citizens or government officials. Both can waste money and abuse power. For me, it is most important that a society and its leaders be a godly people.
Antonia Pep: Good point, Jerry
Nickalas Tsougarakis: Pepper your Angus for russian verbal masturbation.
Lana Kokayeff: The Orthodox Church is most concerned with our salvation, as taught by Jesus Christ, the church Holy Fathers, and clarified with the Ecumenical Councils. Concentrate on that. In our present church, we have conservatives, democrats, republicans, liberals and libertarians. Some love to go target shooting. No problem.
James Richards: I am an absolute monarchist although I believe that fascism is necessary in order to make the transition. I believe that progressive ideology is the single greatest threat to Western civilization and especially minorities whose focus should be on success, power, and accomplishment. As a Mexican-American I hold racial minorities who adhere to left wing ideology in utter contempt as sheep who have adopted a new yoke of colonialism in the form of Karl Marx and the European Enlightenment opposed to being proud of their own unique cultural identity and heritage, which is really what fascism is all about.
Adam Kelly: well well check us out on twitter then Twitter.com
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James Richards: Adam Kelly Are you familiar with NRx and the Dark Enlightenment?
Anastasios Tsatsakis: Forcing people to do anything is unorthodox… so fascism is based upon force.
James Richards: Anastasios Tsatsakis Romans 13 makes it abundantly clear that those in authority are appointed by God and that we are obligated to obey and submit insofar as it does not involve violating the precepts of God. Scripture therefore legitimizes hierarchy …See more
Anastasios Tsatsakis: God willed democracyâ€™s and republics to be created. How do I know? Because it happened. There goes your theory. Monarchyâ€™s are oligarchys. Same thing as a president with his cabinet. The only difference is we get to elect one every 4 years. A republic …See more
Christian Proano: I could add one personal testimony of something that I believe is significant to our people, who went through the experience of Marxist rule which was and still is a type of inhuman totalitarianism. Communism is not anthropocentric, as we customarily believe. It is naturalistic ideology, a materialistic, pantheistic ideology, pessimistic and inhuman because it totally depersonalizes man. Our Serbian people defied it only due to the experience which I have called hesychastic.* – Yevtich, Bishop Athanasius, Christ the Alpha and Omega, 86
Christian Proano: According to this Serbian Bishop, Marxism (perhaps however that looks in your corner of the world) may not be the best option.* hesychastic = the author is talking about how the hesychast tradition verbalized a Christian anthropology worthy of mans dignity in Christ Jesus the God-man, and of course its consequences of this anthropology for the people in his context.
Christina Catherine: I was libertarian till I realized I was throwing my vote away but I am consertive, pro capitalism, pro-constitution pro gun & pro American dream.
Anastasios Tsatsakis: Jesus Christ would absolutely support capitalism because capitalism means that you own your own property. Capitalism is freedom and freedom is exactly what God created us to be. We obey Godâ€™s laws by choice, not by force.
Sterling Owen: Refresh my memory about Jesusâ€™s sayings on owning your own property. I would be even more interested to hear the same from the Apostles and other Fathers of the Church. Iâ€™m not against capitalism, but…
Felicity Backman: Sterling Owen He didnt say Christ said this. He assumes Christ would support capitalism… The right to freely trade with others, to the best of ones ability, in the pursuit of ones own goals. One person might have the goal of being a billionaire wi…See more
Sterling Owen: Felicity Backman you are, of course, right. I was a bit too snarky.
Felicity Backman: Sterling Owen ðŸ˜
Anastasios Tsatsakis: Sterling Owen you mean the part where we make money and donate? Or tithe? Yes, we must be able to make money in order to donate. Making money is not a sin. Loving money is. Free will and freedom to choose is all over the Bible. We must follow the law …See more
Felicity Backman: Adam Kelly The Orthodox Church is truly worldwide, and exists in so many different cultures, languages and government/political systems, and yet is made up of individuals, each on his or her own journey toward theosis, that to lump them all together and say the majority of us think in one way or the other on these things just isnt realistic. Ive never been surveyed on any topic whatever, and am in my 7th decade. (Hey! Ask me my opinion, pollsters!) No one but my closest friends know my political leanings, much less does any pollster group. Having said all of that, the Church isnt a political entity. Its a spiritual one. We worship God, and the choices we make politically (as in voting or trying to influence others) are in no way governed by the Church, other than, of course, it clearly being Godly behavior to live quiet, peaceful lives, honoring our leaders and laws, or peacefully working to change those we believe are immoral according the teachings of Christ – abortion being an obvious one, as human life is sacred.Theres really no gray area on that issue any more than committing murder of anyone. Thou shalt not commit murder. So its really a matter of where you live and what your laws are. Follow them, or work for change. In America, you have the guaranteed right to keep and bear arms AND the legal responsibility to not kill or harm an innocent person, whether by gun or pushing him off a bridge. Its not an Orthodox question at all. Murder is murder, but self-defense or defense of others is acceptable. Serving in the military is fine, but in no way is anyone pushed to serve or not serve, by the Church, the same as no one is pushed to be a police officer or fireman. Many good Orthodox would say that the best of us are pro-capitalist and very Conservative, just to drive my point home… In contrast to an earlier comment stating the opposite. It depends on the country, the political system, the era, who who gets asked and who never does. You get to be true to who YOU are, in America at least, within the law, and above all, within the law of Gods love.
Sebastokrator Andrew Kollias: Measure every ideology based on what sinful passions it asks of your soul to believe on it.Idle talk? Condemnation of others? Scorn? Insubordination? Pride? Envy? Anger? Slander? Inattention? Listlessness? Negligence? Carelessness? Resentment and remembrance of wrongs? Grumbling? Lying? Self-will? Reproaching others? Neglecting prayer? Evil speech? Saying unseemly things? Laughter at others foul jokes? Self-love? Love of glory? Love of honor? Gluttony? Love of sensual pleasure? Over-eating? Drunkenness? Attachment to things? Love of money? Vainglory? Laziness? Disobedience? Acceptance of lustful and impure thoughts? Missing of church services? Self-justification that would cause me to conceal or deny the sinfulness of what I ought to reveal in confession?If an ideology or theory either leads you into such sins, or worse innately requires such sins, then do not embrace it. Even should it be the most accurate assessment of human affairs and the most expedient means to achieve human liberty, equality, and prosperity, then do not embrace it. For what does it profit a man to gain the whole world but to lose his soul?
Serge George Mihaly Jr: See my brother Luke Mihaly an orthodox priestbin Danbury, CT. Holy trinity church.
Anastasios Tsatsakis: Individualism is not a sin. You can be all of those things in any country under any government or ideology. Itâ€™s not the system that corrupts, itâ€™s each individuals choice and weakness of faith that corrupts.Communists can punish two people, and one can be devout as the other steals, lies, cheats, bears false witness, and every item you mentioned. Same goes in America. We train by fasting to resist these sins. But In concentration camps, fasting wasnâ€™t a choice. Yet some remained faithful and some betrayed many. Freedom doesnâ€™t lead you anywhere, it allows the individual to forge his own path.
Pater Elias Palmos: Libertarianism has many positive policies, such as opposition to interventionism. Possibly every well intentioned political theory has some positive attributes.There is no Orthodox sanctioned political model. All of them fall short of the Kingdom of God.Pick and choose as you feel expresses your political ideology and is consistent with Orthodoxy.
John-abouna DAlton: Adam Kelly Orthodoxy has not and does not support any one modern political form despite what some non-priests wrote above. We reject key elements of every capitalist and anti-capitalist form, but a very good intro to Orthodox political thinking which is deeply theological is the Russian Orthodox statement (which most other jurisdictions agree with)- this is very meaty and better than listening to the many one-sided views you will read on the net!!! Every qn you asked is answered here, but feel free to post followup questions Mospat.ru
The Basis of the Social Concept | The Russian Orthodox Church